Journals of the Senate
54 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2005, Canada
Journals of the Senate
1st Session, 38th Parliament
Issue 77
Tuesday, June 28, 2005
2:00 p.m.
The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Buchanan, Callbeck, Chaput, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Downe, Dyck, Eggleton, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gill, Grafstein, Gustafson, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Johnson, Joyal, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Lapointe, Lavigne, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Meighen, Mercer, Milne, Mitchell, Moore, Munson, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Peterson, Phalen, Plamondon, Poulin (Charette), Prud'homme, Ringuette, Robichaud, Rompkey, Smith, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Buchanan, Callbeck, *Carstairs, Chaput, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Downe, Dyck, Eggleton, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gill, Grafstein, Gustafson, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Johnson, Joyal, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Lapointe, Lavigne, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Meighen, Mercer, Milne, Mitchell, Moore, Munson, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Peterson, Phalen, Plamondon, Poulin (Charette), Prud'homme, Ringuette, Robichaud, Rompkey, Smith, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some honourable senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Oliver, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance, presented its fifteenth report (Bill C-43, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 23, 2005, without amendment).
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Eggleton, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Smith, P.C., that the bill be read the third time now.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The bill was then read the third time and passed.
Ordered, That a message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate has passed this bill, without amendment.
Introduction and First Reading of Government Bills
A Message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-48, An Act to authorize the Minister of Finance to make certain payments, to which it desires the concurrence of the Senate.
The bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Eggleton, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Adams, that the bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Notices of Motions
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Bacon moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Callbeck:
That the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs have power to sit at 4:00 p.m. on Wednesday, June 29, 2005, even though the Senate may then be sitting and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
MESSAGES FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS
A message was brought from the House of Commons to return Bill S-18, An Act to amend the Statistics Act,
And to acquaint the Senate that the Commons has passed this bill, without amendment.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Consideration of the eighth report of the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry (Bill S-38, An Act respecting the implementation of international trade commitments by Canada regarding spirit drinks of foreign countries, with amendments), presented in the Senate on June 23, 2005.
The Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pépin, that the report be adopted.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Mitchell moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cowan, that the bill, as amended, be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Orders No. 1 to 11 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Commons Public Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Consideration of the sixteenth report of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce (Bill S- 19, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (criminal interest rate), with an amendment), presented in the Senate on June 23, 2005.
The Honourable Senator Grafstein moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cook, that the report be adopted.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Plamondon moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Grafstein, that the bill, as amended, be read the third time now.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The bill, as amended, was then read the third time and passed.
Ordered, That the Clerk do go down to the House of Commons and acquaint that House that the Senate has passed this bill, to which it desires its concurrence.
Consideration of the fifteenth report of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce, entitled: Falling Behind: Answering the wake-up call. What can be done to improve Canada's productivity performance? tabled in the Senate on June 22, 2005.
The Honourable Senator Grafstein moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Mahovlich, that the report be adopted.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Stratton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 4 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Comeau, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that the third report of the Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, tabled in the Senate on May 19, 2005, be adopted and that, pursuant to rule 131(2), the Senate request a complete and detailed response from the government, with the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans being identified as Minister responsible for responding to the report.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 6 and 7 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Consideration of the seventh report (interim) of the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry, entitled: Cattle Slaughter Capacity in Canada, tabled in the Senate on May 19, 2005.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., that further debate on the consideration of the report be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 9 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Other
Orders No. 18 (inquiry), 113 (motion), 6 (inquiry), 85 (motion), 23, 2, 25, 17, 26, 11, 15 (inquiries), 91 (motion), 4, 24, 21, 22, 12 (inquiries), 78 (motion), 14, 20 (inquiries) and 69 (motion) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
The Honourable Senator Stratton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was negatived, on division.
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That the Senate do now adjourn during pleasure to reassemble at the call of the chair at approximately 7:30 p.m.
A point of order was raised with respect to the acceptability of the motion.
After debate,
The Speaker reserved his decision.
At 3:49 p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 4:19 p.m., the sitting resumed.
SPEAKER'S RULING
I gather that honourable senators are ready for a ruling on the point of order raised by Senator Kinsella.
I thank honourable senators for their contributions to the point of order. As I understand it, the point of order is with regard to whether the motion of Senator Rompkey to adjourn the sitting to the call of the chair is in order. Senator Rompkey explained, in the course of putting the motion, that the purpose for this suspension is to receive letters confirming Royal Assent, which are expected later this day.
Senator Kinsella's position is that a motion to adjourn to the call of the chair would be in order only if there were further business to conduct today.
The real question, as I see it, honourable senators, is whether this longstanding practice requires leave, whether it is put in the form of a motion, as Senator Rompkey did in this case, or whether there is request for the unanimous agreement of the Senate to do something such as adjourn to the call of the chair.
In the case of a motion, I have looked at a rule that might have application, that being rule 59, which says:
Notice is not required for:
It then lists a number of steps that can occur in the Senate by way of a motion which, because of rule 59, do not require notice. The only subsection of rule 59 that might apply to this situation would be (18), which says:
Other motions of a merely formal or uncontentious character.
I will not rule on whether the motion is debatable, but as to whether it is contentious. I think that is evident in that to adjourn to the call of the chair would require a request for agreement of the house by way of a vote. Therefore, I do not believe this matter falls under rule 59(18).
Where does this leave us? I have, with the assistance of the table officers, tried to find precedents for this procedure which is very common in our proceedings. As I indicated at the beginning of my remarks, this has been done in two ways. I will give an example of the first way from page 1243 of the Journals of the Senate of April 22, 1997. The Journal entry reads:
At 4:15 p.m. the sitting was adjourned during pleasure to resume at the call of the bell at approximately 6:30 p.m.
It could have said "the call of the chair,'' but it was a time specific, and I do not, for purposes of this ruling, distinguish between a time certain and the call of the chair.
I do take, however, from what I have read in the journals, that, either as a result of no objection being made or by asking for and receiving leave, leave was given to take this step.
The other way in which we do this is the way in which Senator Rompkey has proceeded on this occasion. I draw the attention of honourable senators to the Journals of the Senate for May 12 of this year, page 901. The recital is clear. It reads:
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:That the Senate do now adjourn at pleasure to reassemble at the call of the chair and that the bells ring for five minutes.
I repeat, I do not distinguish between whether it is to the call of the chair, in the chair's discretion, provided it is within our sitting times, or to a time certain. Our practice, honourable senators, is clear. Leave is required to proceed with the motion that was put by Senator Rompkey.
I assume leave was not granted, but that can be clarified very easily. However, my ruling is that the proceeding Senator Rompkey has initiated requires leave, that is, to put a motion to the chamber to adjourn for a time certain or to the call of the chair.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Reports of the Department of Finance for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2005, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2). —Sessional Paper No. 1/38-634.
Report of the Farm Debt Mediation Act, Farm Debt Mediation Service and Farm Consultation Service for the period of 2000-2004, pursuant to the Act, S.C. 1997, c. 21, sbs. 28(3).—Sessional Paper No. 1/38-635.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 4:30 p.m. the Senate was continued until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow.)
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration
The name of the Honourable Senator Comeau substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton (June 23).
Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology
The name of the Honourable Senator Johnson substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Stratton (June 23).
Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry
The names of the Honourable Senators Gill and Hubley substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Chaput and Robichaud (June 23).
Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce
The name of the Honourable Senator Moore substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Baker (June 23).
Standing Senate Committee on National Finance
The names of the Honourable Senators Biron, Day, Comeau and Cools substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Tardif, Cowan, Tkachuk and Kinsella (June 23).
The names of the Honourable Senators Harb and Eggleton substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Eggleton and Biron (June 27).
Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence
The name of the Honourable Senator Mercer substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Cordy (June 27).
The names of the Honourable Senator Cordy and Day substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Mercer and Chaput (June 28).